Curse

Algren Cole · Aug 23, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Newsflash: the masses are abusing this and are bitching to everyone who argues for a nerf, not the other way around.
You're probably the least qualified person to make a statement like that. Mhydrian's post was over-the-top sarcasm, but people have actually suggested to buff all other classes instead of nerfing Protective Bond, so it's not even very far-fetched.

And to all the people crying that 'monks' will be nerfed, that's nonsense. If ArenaNet goes about this the right way, monks who use Protective Spirit/Bond in a normal fashion (i.e. on allies with normal max health) won't be affected by any nerf, and the skill would be just as potent as it was before. Just those people who use it with ridiculously low health monks will be affected, as they are making this into a problem themselves.

Quote:

Spread the love...EVERYONE can use enchants to make themself essentially invulnerable and solo whereever the hell they want!!!! YEAH MAN WOO HOO FREE GOLD...Uberness for all!!!

The 105/55 build can solo a very select number of areas. It's hardly "wherever we want".

the build doesn't affect you. it doesn't affect me. it doesn't affect joe RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOblower down the street....it doesn't affect anyone. It's just another way for people to find enjoyment in a game they spent hard earned money on. You and the rest of the people that feel the need to nerf this build are the very same people that bitch about one thing or another CONSTANTLY. Whether it's a need to hear yourself talk or a need to constantly have something to disagree with, I honestly don't know nor do I care. ArenaNET has gone on record as saying they have nothing against legitament farming. This build is a legitament farming build and in no way affects anyone not using it. Those of you screaming about it ruining the economy need to spend more time in a classroom and less time on the internet...because YOU ARE STUPID.

p.s. are you gonna ride my nuts for much longer? I honestly think you find better things to do with your time

LathalDraugr · Aug 23, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

Let's face it. If the US government finds out some people are collecting free money from social security office, i.e. a loop hole in the SS laws, Bush will have that loop hole closed.

Now, those people who had been collecting free money, they should giggle like school girls, be grateful that the free cash run lasted as long as it did.....

(Minor Correction)
rather than complain other people who are working hard for their money have nearly as much as them.

The people you were applying the metaphor to are obviously the people who got rich at the price reset since they're the only people who got free money. And clearly they don't want 105 monks or anyone else for that matter to reduce the prices of ecto or other high priced items or let anyone get FoW armour so they can feel special.

[/sarcasm]

(Just for anyone who doesn't get it I'm not actually having a go at those who got rich at the price reset. Although it's a good example of why it's not an issue of "fairness" and more an issue of griefing and jealousy.)

Martina · Aug 23, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

They do not need to nerf the build.. just pop in a few mesmer mobs inplace of the normal ones.

That said, no I wont stop playing. I do, however, applaud the orriginal user of this build. It's nothing more than creative genius in the use and understanding of the provided tools (provided by ANet). I've been to UW with a couple 105/55's... and to you who think they're ruining the economy, you're flat-out wrong.

Sekkira · Aug 23, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

You know, I would call for this topic to be closed as it's dragged out long enough, everyone is repeating themselves over and over, including me and it just doesn't need to go on any longer.

But my connection is being a fag atm and therefore, can't play Guild Wars to escape this faggotry. THANK YOU INTERNET!

Epinephrine · Aug 23, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

For those who think that the frog has only said the bit about honourable farmers, look again. He said

"The frog does not know "nerf" but will say that those who seem invincible will not always seem so".

That is pretty damn clear. The Invincimonk isn't even a new build - people were trying to come up with ways to drop their healths down to ~5 hitpoints so that the damage would be rounded down, and you wouldn't need any healing - 3 months ago. A level 15 character can do this - level 15 has 380 health and can use 5 runes for a total of 5 health. With a Prot bond they take a quarter point of damage per hit against them, probably rounding down knowing this game. Nobody forsaw how popular the 105 build would get, I guess because they were trying to figure out how to take no damage rather than simply taking little damage.

It's not that clever, it's actually rather obvious, and was posted about a great deal. Rather like calculus - everyone thinks it's some brilliant invention, but it was actually bound to happen - it was a necessary evolution of mathematics, and a fairly obvious one.

The skill deserves a nerf of some sort, the 17 protection thing with a 1 cost was probably not meant to occur - that'll make it a bit tougher to run, but not much tougher. What they really need is simply to put anti-enchantment creatures out there. They did it with every other spot in the game where people went to farm, why wouldn't they do it in the UW? Chillblains off the bugs in the desert made it much tougher out there, and I am certain the same thing will happen to the UW.

Audhumla · Aug 23, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Eh, I'm kinda hoping they nerf it eventually. That way I can delete my Mo/W for a PvP slot I've been wanting...

SJG · Aug 23, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

In my opinion, the 105 build is an fairly obviously an exploit. That is, it uses the game mechanics in a way that was not considered. It was an oversight on the part of the devs, something that was obviously not factored in to any balancing process.

Kudos to the person who discovered it because it is obviously a clever little loophole but that does not take away from the fact that as an exploit, it really should be fixed.

ManadartheHealer · Aug 23, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Leaving the game because one skill is nerfed a little so it cannot be taken advantage of has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard...

"They slightly altered 1/400th of the skills in the game so I cannot <ab>use it anymore. That's the last straw; I'm leaving!"

As soon as the skill is nerfed, it's back to the drawingboard for another farming build

Algren Cole · Aug 23, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Honestly SJG. If the -1 lvl17 Prot Bond was an oversight by ArenaNet and not intended...I hope they keep it to themselves. It just further proves the incredibly low level of intelligence over at ArenaNet....

Sekkira · Aug 23, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJG

it really should be fixed.

zemelett · Aug 23, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I cant really see them changing the enchantments or even the health penalty for using superior runes. However I can see them throwing enchantment shattering mesmers all over the place...You can bet your butt the devs put plenty of mesmers in the "Summer Update" and if you can solo it it'll be some new builds, and i'll be very suprized.

Silmor · Aug 23, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

The actual content of your writing is that you think that the 105 monk / the skill Protective Bond is broken.

My opinion on 105/Protective Bond unfortunately had nothing to do with my remark to Algren Cole. He suggested that 'the masses' are whining for a nerf when there's a (now locked) thread with an immense number of pro-105 posts versus a small number of pro-nerf posts, along with veritable masses of monks in the ToA districts, which just show his remark is nonsense - that was what I was trying to point out. Why they use it, or how it's possible for them to use it is beside the point here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

The 105/55 build can solo a very select number of areas. It's hardly "wherever we want".

That's just because you suck at using the build then. For argument's sake, let's not look at the least common denominator, but instead look at the full potential problem - that's how you tackle balance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the build doesn't affect you. it doesn't affect me. it doesn't affect joe RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOblower down the street....it doesn't affect anyone. It's just another way for people to find enjoyment in a game they spent hard earned money on. You and the rest of the people that feel the need to nerf this build are the very same people that bitch about one thing or another CONSTANTLY. Whether it's a need to hear yourself talk or a need to constantly have something to disagree with, I honestly don't know nor do I care. ArenaNET has gone on record as saying they have nothing against legitament farming. This build is a legitament farming build and in no way affects anyone not using it. Those of you screaming about it ruining the economy need to spend more time in a classroom and less time on the internet...because YOU ARE STUPID.

Unfortunately there have been very informed posts on this issue in the 'farming does not cause inflation' thread, go and educate yourself before making stupid remarks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

p.s. are you gonna ride my nuts for much longer? I honestly think you find better things to do with your time

The moment you stop posting uninformed drivel is the moment I stop 'riding your nuts'. See the correlation?

Legendary Battousai · Aug 23, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJG

In my opinion, the 105 build is an fairly obviously an exploit. That is, it uses the game mechanics in a way that was not considered. It was an oversight on the part of the devs, something that was obviously not factored in to any balancing process.

Kudos to the person who discovered it because it is obviously a clever little loophole but that does not take away from the fact that as an exploit, it really should be fixed.

ok so your saying that a warrior with healing breeze with high enough armor to reduce the damage he takes to 20 per second, and has +10 regen is using an exploit? HELL NO! Its like saying just because you heal more than someone will damage you as an exploit, is "fairly obviously" not an exploit.

The reason I created this build in the first place, is that I am a hardcore PvPer. Only way to unlock things is to pvp. And I wanted to pve quick and easily and get the stuff I needed. If it is nerfed, I will eventually find some other way to overpower a build, either with the help of 2 characters or try some interesting necro combos. I am concidering a necro tank that can solo UW but requires other people to help... about 3-5. Still, whats the point of forcing every single person to play PvE with 3 or more characters... Its just annoying and stupid; a way to impose your will, which isnt why we bought the game.

But thanks for the kudos

other than that, I find what you say to be quite wrong.

Algren Cole · Aug 23, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

My opinion on 105/Protective Bond unfortunately had nothing to do with my remark to Algren Cole. He suggested that 'the masses' are whining for a nerf when there's a (now locked) thread with an immense number of pro-105 posts versus a small number of pro-nerf posts, along with veritable masses of monks in the ToA districts, which just show his remark is nonsense - that was what I was trying to point out. Why they use it, or how it's possible for them to use it is beside the point here.
That's just because you suck at using the build then. For argument's sake, let's not look at the least common denominator, but instead look at the full potential problem - that's how you tackle balance.
Unfortunately there have been very informed posts on this issue in the 'farming does not cause inflation' thread, go and educate yourself before making stupid remarks.
The moment you stop posting uninformed drivel is the moment I stop 'riding your nuts'. See the correlation?

1) bringing more weapons/items into the game causes Deflation...not inflation.
2) you really make me wish you could hit people via the internet.
3) ride one...it's the best workout my nuts have ever gotten.

Sekkira · Aug 23, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Balls Are Touching!

Legendary Battousai · Aug 23, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

The invincimonk can solo almost any area with the right skill setup and stragety [f--k bonneti's defence]. I can farm Elona's, dunes, thirsty river, Hydras, tengu, mursaat, everything between copperhammer and granite, white mantle, uw and most of fissure. Fissure is one of the things that only the real pros can do, because of the mesmers. The farthest I've gotten was to the forgemaster... yet any mistake could be your last.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 23, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Well, if the 105 build is nerfed, and you quit, it means you weren't playing *Guild Wars* per se, but rather *Monk With 105 HP Fights Big Monsters Over and Over on Your PC*
If you paid $50 to play the latter, then yes, they'd be taking away your game, and I could understand quitting. What I would not be able to understand is why you'd buy that game in the first place.

As far as "nerfing" the Monk build, it perhaps should be done somehow, since it's currently hurting PVE a lot more than it's helping. Wizards of the Coast frequently enough prints a card (Skullclamp, anyone?) that turns out to be an absolute menace and must-have in the metagame, and rather than sitting on their asses letting the metagame turn to crap, they ban it or introduce some sort of errata that gives other decktypes more of a chance. It is an oversight, and they recognize that.

The bottom line is, if ArenaNet does not fix oversights, build-related or not, that means they do not respect their own goals. Otherwise why would they playtest the game for "balance" at all?

2_fingers · Aug 23, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

God... Something really funny strikes me here.

The monks get 1 skill that allows them to solo a small area in the game, and they ask for nerfs.

But I dont ever see any mention about actually improving the other characters for pve. I create a mesmer, and i'll never get invited to a team, end up soloing most of the missions. I create a monk, enter a mission zone and before my screen loads up, i've got a few billion blind invites.

What should be done instead of nerfing the hell out of us, is to imrpove the conditions of the other classes. To make them more P v E. The idea of nerfing is to balance the game - but u cannot hope to possibly balance the game if the game now consitutes of

1. Healers (Monks only need apply)
2. Elementals (Must be an elem)
3. Warrior/mo

Mesmers underutilised because their skills are problematic in gw. Complaining about a problem that is basically a good way to use a skill is a waste of time. Make the mesmers and other classes a bit more powerful for pve.

Secondly, if they do start nerfing the monk, they should improve the other classes - especially in the following areas
1. Self heal
2. Self preservation
and other areas where the monks were basically helping out to get rid of this problems.

Seriously, if i quit gw because they nerfed the 105 build - it wont be because i cant farm anymore, but because it gets lamer by the update.

*Only managed to get into teams when i switched my build from a mesmer only to pure healing mesmer. Even then, it was difficult convincing ppl. If a class is so bad till it cant do anything other than be necro fodder in PVE, that should be altered.

Sekkira · Aug 23, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

And the above person's post just proved right there that there is nothing wrong with the skills, it's the people.

GreatLich · Aug 23, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Would I quit if the Devs decided to adjust prot bond (or any skill for that matter) to the detriment of the 55/105 solo monks? Hell no! in Guild Wars I have found the first game in 2 years that has been able to hold my interest for longer than 2 weeks!

<off-topic and probably not belonging in this thread>
On the matter of "nerfing" Protective bond: In my opinion Prot. bond is working as intended, because no matter how many hit points u have, all it really does is say: "while i'm up, you can survive a minimum of 20 hits (20 * 5% = 100%)". If you look at the 55 HP build, it isn't prot bond that's keeping you alive, it's the +4 mending and the +2 from Watchful spirit.
In my opinion, mixing in percentile based skills (as Prot bond, which works off of a percentile number) in an integer based HP system is the real flaw at work here. Fixing this would require a reworking of Prot Bond nevertheless, so that it will continue to function as intended, but no longer work off of a percentile. (perhaps making it work like shielding hands, but reducing damage before armor is factored in; any solution that provides prot bond with a "fixed" number to work off of would do)